An artist who sees Robert Crumb as an "incel" in a good way?
Interview Magazine has an exchange between biographer Dan Nadel and artist Al Freeman about their past readings and inspirations in art, including what they think of cartoonist Robert Crumb, who's got a new biography coming out from Nadel, and here's what comes up in the whole discussion:
Anyway, it sure is odd how, in years after the word "incel" may have been coined by leftists as a form of negative slang for sex-obsessed pop culture fans, these particular artists and writers who show all the signs of being equally leftist themselves are suddenly making it sound positive. And it's possible Nadel's putting out a Crumb biography because most of the utter nonsense from the past decade on social media's worn off, and Nadel feels it's easier to develop a biography about such a controversial figure now. But it also indicates there are still leftist-types with lenient positions on serious issues, and that's very unfortunate, because how is society supposed to be tidied up of any vulgarity it's been littered with if nobody's at least going to question whether mistakes can be made with art and entertainment? That's something that needs to be seriously pondered in the coming years.
FREEMAN: There must have been a point where you went from the superhero mainstream stuff to the Crumb world?From that, it sounds like they're saying "incel" is a good thing? And here in the past decade, it seemed as though most leftists were using the word as a slur against anybody they disagreed with in pop culture. That aside, interesting they bring up Maus, because that's a product of Art Spiegelman, who's sadly one very left-wing ideologue (is Nadel getting the connections wrong?), and Pekar was of the same political bent in the worst ways possible. So regardless of what one thinks of Crumb for one, even the politics he likely goes by are very alienating. Here's more of the exchange on the issue of "incels", and what comes next, unfortunately, is quite disgusting:
NADEL: My entry into the Crumb world happened because, like a lot of Jewish kids, I found Maus when I was 11 or 12.
FREEMAN: Oh, that’s young to find Maus.
NADEL: I know, but I was already reading books about the Holocaust.
FREEMAN: You’re a bit of a Holocaust head.
NADEL: Yeah, instead of being really into the latest video games, it was the latest Holocaust memoirs. So, Maus made a big impression. And then I was at a comic book convention at some point, maybe when I was 12, because there used to be these great comic cons in the neighborhood. So I could walk from my house to the local Holiday Inn–
FREEMAN: To find the other nerds.
NADEL: And it was amazing. Anyway, I was milling around at the dealers and they asked me what I was into and I said, “Maus.” So, they handed me American Splendor, which was Crumb’s collaboration with Harvey Pekar, and I just loved that. I still remember all the stories in that book really well. That was my entry point to Crumb. That work made perfect sense to me visually, in my 14-year-old brain, like the sexual obsession. And after that, I found Head Comix, which is a great book. I must’ve been 14 when I found Head Comix, and it just completely made sense to me, which is weird too.
FREEMAN: It totally makes sense.
NADEL: If you’re a 14-year-old alienated kid in the suburbs and you find something that’s made by a nerdy guy and he’s having sex and it’s about jerking off…
FREEMAN: It’s the incel’s dream.
FREEMAN: But getting back to the incel thing—Oh for heaven's sake. So if you don't wallow in vulgarity when writing fictional stories, you'll literally turn into a savage as much as a pervert in reality? Have they seen what people like Justiniano, Gerard Jones, and Neil Gaiman were accused of? There are, unfortunately, perverts who can give clues to what's wrong with their mindsets in their very scriptwriting, and while not every artist/writer who deals with crude stuff is guilty of real life offenses, that doesn't mean it's healthy to make nasty things look like a celebration in comics and other books. Sometimes it helps to promote life, love and family a lot more, and tragically, too few comics and films do that today. Also, in another note about Maus, something tells me they'd never produce anything similar discussing Islamic jihadism and its devastating effect not just on Jews, but everyone civilized, seeing what direction Spiegelman recently took. The twosome at the magazine continue:
NADEL: Do you see him as an incel?
FREEMAN: I see him as an incel who turned it around and leveraged all of the undesirable incel qualities into something that he was able to really use to have a lot of sex.
NADEL: It never occurred to me to think of him that way after all these years of working on this book.
FREEMAN: Well, the incel thing wasn’t a conversation in our culture until recently. But now, with hindsight, it’s like, “Oh, that’s what that persona is.”
NADEL: He also definitely has an enormous following amongst men who, I guess, could be considered incel or incel-adjacent. There’s people that just post his worst stuff, like rapey-est stuff because—
FREEMAN: I think that’s some of his best work, honestly.
NADEL: The really unhinged stuff?
FREEMAN: Yeah, as someone who is repelled by moralizing culture, and as someone who likes to poke at people’s limitations. It just seems like it wouldn’t be allowed now. You say something in the book about how comics were a healthy place that he could play out these grotesque fantasies. And I think that art should be a place where it’s safe to explore some of our most vulgar desires so that you don’t end up shooting up a school.
FREEMAN: Defend which parts specifically?Ahem. Why not ask whether it could influence anybody the wrong way if portrayed the wrong way? If Nadel's saying, however, that he understood there's a limit to how far one should go in writing up a story involving graphic and sexual violence, that's certainly amazing. If anything, such elements shouldn't be played for laughs and cheap sensationalism.
NADEL: Even just stating outright that it’s art and won’t hurt anyone. My editor wisely pushed back on that, asking if I was really sure an image of rape and decapitation couldn’t hurt anyone. A reasonable question.
FREEMAN: He had his bros and his hoes. Crumb resisted conventional relationships with women and refused to be locked down into monogamy, which feels very relevant today. I see many men in New York City acting similarly, with women agreeing to it despite not liking it. He pushed the limits of non-monogamy until someone finally said, “Enough.”If Crumb was glorifying drugs, that's not something even an adult should celebrate. Stuff like cocaine's hurt only so many people, and even if it's not as severe an issue as Islamic jihadism, that still doesn't mean drug abuse is acceptable. And then:
NADEL: It’s funny because normally we wouldn’t even discuss his relationships, except they’re such a big part of his work, so it’s unavoidable.
FREEMAN: And a significant part of the book, too. His move to the country compound also seems tied to that ’60s back-to-earth culture. It’s wild how long he maintained that lifestyle. It seemed violent, unpleasant, impossible to sustain.
NADEL: Absolutely. Writing about it, the franticness and unpleasantness felt so foreign to my own operating system. But Crumb’s mind was so open, I could see why the chaos made a kind of sense to him.
FREEMAN: Is it an incel fallout, going from feeling like he’d never get laid to suddenly having the floodgates open and refusing to turn off the tap?
NADEL: Yes and no. Not turning off the tap is one thing. Plotting your whole life around getting laid, taking three-hour bus rides, that’s another level of effort. He’s a compulsive guy. Records, sex, comics.
FREEMAN: Drugs too.
NADEL: Someone I interviewed insisted I ask Crumb about it, but I didn’t.On this, I wonder what they think of how, more of recent, the very crowd Crumb once pandered to turned against him in the past decade? Unfortunately, that same crowd didn't do so because they'd concluded his "satires" were vulgar and offensive, but likely because it could serve as a mirror of what liberalism could have a problem with approving of. But does or did Crumb ever have a hatred of women? Well if he made jokes about sexual assault, that can be considered misogyny incarnate, but again, considering what double standards the left has, and where they went with LGBT ideology in the past decade, chances are they're not being altruistic on this subject either.
FREEMAN: Although he does maintain an admitted hatred of women.
NADEL: He maintains a hatred of humans, period. And women for sure, but he also loves women.
FREEMAN: He’s like, “I love women. I have pages full of women. I have binders full of women.”
NADEL: I wouldn’t call him a feminist. He maintains this love-hate thing. And certainly, with Aline, that marriage would not have lasted if he hadn’t changed on a pretty fundamental level.
Anyway, it sure is odd how, in years after the word "incel" may have been coined by leftists as a form of negative slang for sex-obsessed pop culture fans, these particular artists and writers who show all the signs of being equally leftist themselves are suddenly making it sound positive. And it's possible Nadel's putting out a Crumb biography because most of the utter nonsense from the past decade on social media's worn off, and Nadel feels it's easier to develop a biography about such a controversial figure now. But it also indicates there are still leftist-types with lenient positions on serious issues, and that's very unfortunate, because how is society supposed to be tidied up of any vulgarity it's been littered with if nobody's at least going to question whether mistakes can be made with art and entertainment? That's something that needs to be seriously pondered in the coming years.
Labels: censorship issues, comic strips, conventions, history, indie publishers, msm propaganda
